From Ally: There are few people in the blogosphere I trust more to talk to you about relationships than Nicole Cottrell and her husband Jonathan. It never ceases to amaze me how highly these two speak of marriage. Needless to say they’re enjoying it. As I walk toward marriage myself I’m taking all the advice I can get and this is good stuff. Hope you enjoy it as much as I do.
I’m Nicole Cottrell. I’m trained in the fine art of button-pushing and use my skills daily on Modern Reject where I write about the intersection of faith and culture, as well as the unpopular stuff no one else likes to talk about. I’m a speaker, writer, discipler, and coffee fanatic. I am writing this article with my husband Jonathan today. Feel free to stalk me: www.modernreject.com twitter: @modernreject
When Ally asked us to write a post on our perspective about whether or not you should have friends of the opposite sex after you’re married, it was a rather simple answer for us. You shouldn’t. Period. End of story. Simple.
The reason we were able to answer this question so quickly is because that boundary was established before the beginning of our marriage. In fact, it was established during our engagement. In our minds, there is no gray area.
And let us just brag for a moment: our marriage is fabulous. Solid. The bomb sauce. The hubster ain’t callin’ up Sally to go to the movies with him or grab lunch—heck, he’s not even calling her. And wifey isn’t meeting up with her old friend Joe to go scour the sale racks. Now, that doesn’t mean we don’t have friends we love to mutually hang out with together as a couple. The key word there is: together. As in both of us are hanging out with them.
We know others differ from our perspective, but rather than debate our position, we thought it would be best to simply share five reasons why we draw such a line on the issue.
Uno: No temptation.
This is an obvious one. Not sure we have to divulge too much information other than to say, by setting clear boundaries on the issue, you’re not setting yourselves up for potential disaster—or even the temptation. We like Pastor Rick Warren’s position on the issue. He has ten commandments for Saddleback church staff (that also work great within the context of any marriage), eight of which (that’s 80%, yo!) are just on this issue alone. Things like: “Thou shalt not go to lunch alone with the opposite sex.” And: “Thou shalt not kiss any attender of the opposite sex or show affection that could be questioned.”
Here comes two: No comparisons.
When you’re not hanging out with the opposite sex alone, it’s really easy not to compare your spouse with someone else. There’s no “Billy does this” or “Jane does that.” You compare your spouse to God’s standards for husbands and wives rather than some random dude or chick with whom you’ve been kickin’ it.
The big three: No questions.
Especially if you have a sexual past or struggle with sexual temptation, then drawing clear boundary lines in your marriage on this issue will produce freedom. It sounds like a paradox—boundaries creating freedom—but isn’t that how God rolls?! When tempting situations that mimic your past are altogether avoided, you can enjoy your marriage with more peace, confidence, and security.
Four’s got more: No assumptions.
Christians know it with the all-too-churchy term: being above reproach (that means “above shame,” if you haven’t read up on your Christianese). While sometimes people are quick to get defensive with responses like, “Well you just don’t know the circumstances,” the whole point of being above shame means that no one will assume anything. Your coworker won’t be wondering why you’re having a cappuccino with your secretary…because you’re not having that cappuccino, buddy! All they’ll be assuming is that your marriage is a bedrock of fabulosity.
High five: Yes, others are watching.
It’s not just about outsiders’ assumptions. This about modeling Godly, responsible, and wise behavior in your marriage. ‘Cuz the truth is, someone is always watching, even when you don’t know it. In the future, it could be your very own children. Right now it could be friends, family members, other young couples, or even those who don’t follow Christ. Because Christ called husbands to love their wives as He loves the Church, and for wives to respect their husbands—living intentionally within the boundaries of not having opposite sex friendships is just another way for our marriages to model these commandments.
And we think that’s pretty worth it.
What are your thoughts on the issues? If you’re unmarried, does this sound spiffy or stifling? If you’re married, did your position on the issue change after getting hitched? What would you add to the list?
Thanks for the thoughts Nicole! I have always felt this way about opposite sex relationships and you and your husband give concrete reasons that I really appreciate. I do have a quick question for you. I am engaged to be married to my best friend and we both have friends of the opposite sex. Neither of us have spent time with them one-on-one, however there are times when one of us will be hanging out with a group that will involve a friend of the opposite sex. At times, it is simply because the other one of us is not around to spend time with those same people. Is this okay? I will admit, at times it makes me uncomfortable but then again I think I might be petty some times. I would just love to hear your thoughts…THANKS!
Emily,
Great question. First off, I love that you said you are engaged to your “best friend”!
My first reaction, is yes, of course hanging out in a group is totally kosher. But then I read that it makes you uncomfortable.
I would take time to consider, pray, and discuss with your fiance why that is–is there a root reason? I doubt you are just being petty.
Thing is, when I was engaged, I wouldn’t have minded group settings with the opposite sex, without me present nearly as much. That was sort of our social scene at the time. Lots of people in their 20′s hanging out.
Once married, however, I can say my feelings on the issue changed. I wouldn’t ideally like my husband hanging out in a group that included women without me being there.
You see, I fully trust my husband, but I don’t trust women. More than that, you have to be aware that every man, no matter how Godly or loving or committed, is susceptible to temptation and/or adultery.
All that to say–pray and see why it bothers you, then act accordingly. Trust your instincts and continue to be open with you best friend!
Thanks for the response Nicole
I will definitely take some time to pray about this and discuss it. It is amazing how we can forget that there is normally a reason we don’t feel comfortable with something.
Blessings, Emily
Emily, I think Nicole nailed the response: “every man, no matter how Godly or loving or committed, is susceptible to temptation and/or adultery.” And I know she’s not reserving that to just men, either. We believe every person, in the wrong situation and wrong time, is susceptible. There is strength in setting boundaries, not weakness.
Also, I would simply add that, if it makes you uncomfortable, don’t hesitate to share those feelings with your fiance. I can promise you that he’ll want to know and, after you do that, I bet you’ll make some tweaks. Your relationship will be all the stronger for it.
Thanks for commenting!
Thanks Jonathan!! I love how you said “There is strength in setting boundaries, not weakness”. Its so easy to forget that sometimes…
Blessings
Yeah, when you’re a couple, friends of the other gender have to be shared by both people. You can’t just go hang out with girls without your wife (or vice verse).
Spoken like a man who is married to an awesome wife!
Nobody can bring truth with such style as the great Nicole. I have to say, I have struggled with this because I have a lot of female friends.
At work, I have a friend who I’ve known for 12 years and we happen to do lunch together once in a while. There are no surprises as my wife knows her longer than I do and I always tell her when we do lunch. Nevertheless, I am braking one of your rules.
I’ve also had “meetups” with some people who I communicate via twitter and blogging, but those meetings are never alone, always with others.
I think barriers are super important and you outlined the reason Why: Temptation. We by nature love the forbidden. And often that “thrill” keeps us in cloud 9, so in order to avoid falling into temptation is better to have those boundaries to protect us from going there in the first place.
Great stuff Nicole. Cheers to Jonathan!
Moe,
I will say that I think every marriage has to establish their own boundaries and rules. What works for one won’t necessarily work for another. So your lunches are deemed cool in your marriage and that works for you guys.
I think you are right on too that we do love the forbidden, all of us. And when we can eliminate it to begin with, we are protecting our marriage.
Thanks for stopping over to comment Moe!
Moe, I would just pose a simple question to you: Why do you have “a lot of female friends”? No judgment, just an honest question.
I used to fall in the same category, until I chose: no more. I did that before Nicole and I were married, actually, in the context of a previous relationship. It was one of the best decisions I’ve ever made. Honest. But I want to hear from you…why do you feel like you have–or need to keep–these friendships?
That’s a great question Jonathan. I don’t know what the answer is. I like to yap, so I can talk to anyone at any time, so whether you are male or female, I feel comfortable talking to both. I can’t really say I know the answer to that. It’s not that I wake up and put on my tasks list: “Make lots of female friends”. It just happens.
Now that last question is hard to answer. I try to be a loyal friend and I find it hard to believe that I should kill a friendship based on gender.
As I mentioned on a previous blog entry, I have no problem being friends with the opposite . . . but it also depends on where and how you hang out. For example, at my job (a public library) most of my co-workers are female. I’ve become close with a couple of them, and I’ve been over to their homes for their kids’ birthday parties . . . with my fiancee in hand. Place where there are lots of people, significant others are there, spouses are there–no problem!
Now private one-on-one time with some one of the opposite sex–okay, I can see where that gets tricky.
Of course there is one thing that no one has mentioned yet: What if your opposite-sex friend is gay? It’s pretty obvious there isn’t any temptation there, unless you’re afraid you’re gonna end up being gay (which is a pretty friggin’ dumb fear).
I’ve also notice there’s a bigger fear among evangelicals about fleeing from fornication than among mainliners/liberals/progressives. Don’t get me wrong, most of my progressive friends are chaste; they just don’t obsess over it as much.
Travis,
Great points you bring up. Having a gay friend is tricky because my husband, although a gay man isn’t inherently attracted to me, is still a man. My husband doesn’t want any man being as close to me as some of my female friends are.
As far as Evangelicals being more apt to flee, well I’m all for it because that is exactly what the bible tells us to do. And call me crazy, but I find the Bible has some pretty good advice.
Thanks Travis for stopping over and commenting! You rock.
Oh, don’t get me wrong, I like chastity, too. I just think that by obsessing over it, evangelicals make fleeing from fornication that must harder. But maybe it’s just me. Long story short, I’ve recently come to the realization that the legalistic god I’ve been believing in isn’t worth believing in.
Travis,
Well said and I so agree. There is a difference between legalism dictating your actions and being Spirit-led. I opt for the latter.
Travis, to reiterate, as we Nicole and I said up front: we have no problem with hanging out *together* with other friends. The thing is, though, that any ladies I would call “friends” are those in the context of my marital relationship. My best friend’s wife is someone I would call a friend, but she’s my wife’s best friend, too, and I’m not calling her up or hanging out alone with her in any context. There are numerous examples of this.
I understand the co-worker thing and having female presences around in such a setting. Here’s what I have always done in such cases: when I needed to have a meeting with another female alone, doors would be open, or ideally, it would be a phone call rather than a meeting. Also, I would talk *all the time* about my wife in a work setting. That was another buffer. And it helps having your wife on your screensaver and pictures of her on your desk, so there’s added reminders to you–and them–about what’s most important. (BONUS: it doesn’t hurt when your wife is HOT to have pictures all around at the office).
Thanks for commenting, Travis!
Great post. Really refreshing to hear others feel the same way.
Thanks Joshua. We appreciate that.
I’m coming at this at a single 20-something.
My first thought was: yes, you’re totally right. I would be uncomfortable with my (future) boyfriend/husband talking to other girls on the phone, etc.
But then I thought about some of my relationships with men. I must confess that I have gone out to lunch with married men (and not their wives), I have been kissed by married men (never on the lips), and I have no problem calling up married men to talk as friends.
I know a Christian, happily married man who takes different women out throughout the week. It’s usually to the same place with the same waitress, so he introduces them as “one of my girlfriends.” He had no shame the week his wife was with him when he said, “This isn’t one of my girlfriends; this is actually my wife.” She knows it happens; she knows the girlfriends.
I think that’s the vital details: with all my married male friends, I am also good friends with their wife. We have boundaries drawn, they are just different. (ex: preferably the office door remains at least cracked but if it must be closed, the window shades must be open). If the wife would present a concern, I would need to be sensitive to her concerns and the relationship with her husband would have to change. If the husband/wife couple were having difficulties, of course it would not be appropriate either.
I may be niave and my opinions will change as I enter into a serious relationship, but this is where I stand today. Having opposite-gender friendships has never been a problem for my parents.
Thanks for making me think.
Katie
Katie,
Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts. I have to admit, the wives of your guy friends must be much more secure than I am.
I commented to Moe above, that every marriage is different and needs to establish their own boundaries. My husband and I happen to think that there is nothing–not a coffee or a lunch–worth placing our marriage at risk.
We’ve heard of far too many marriages crumble because of a so-called “innocent” encounter. One flirtation, one flattering remark, one inconsequential hug…sometimes that’s all it takes to open a door to temptation.
You’re right, your thoughts might change later on, but I’m glad you’re thinking through a lot of this now. You are doing your future spouse a great service!
Katie, I’ll be a little more blunt than Nicole on this one: what is your married pal thinking?! His intentions may be fine, his wife may *say* she’s okay with it, but I can tell you this, too: If he told his wife, “I’m not going to go out to lunch with other ladies alone anymore,” do you think she would be upset? I bet there would be a deep sigh of relief in her gut. There would be added strength in their marriage.
I’m not judging his intentions, don’t get me wrong. But I do believe there is *no* opposite sex relationship more important than that of your spouse’s…so why demonstrate otherwise?
What does your gut/wisdom/mind/heart say on this one, Katie? Be honest.
Jonathan, I very much respect your and Nicole’s commitment to one another and the boundaries you have set for your marriage. I think she said it best when she admitted that very marriage is different and needs to set its own boundaries.
For this particular friend, that works for them. If I were the wife, no, I would not be comfortable with that. The first time I heard him refer to someone as his girlfriend it caught me off-guard, but there is no romance or bad intentions with the girlfriends, just friends who happen to be girls. To give you some context, we tease this friend that he gets more make-up on his choir robe/ shirt than most women (from hugs). He’s very extroverted, energetic, and devoted to the Lord and his family of three young adult daughters and wife of 30+ years. I think if he came home and announced he wasn’t going to hug, cheek-kiss, or go out for drinks with other women anymore, his wife would think he was ill.
In all honesty, the no opposite gender friends boundary reminds me of the Old Testament concern of blasemphy so they set up rules and boundaries around even saying the Lord’s name and thus YHWH instead of Yahweh. But if it works for you then that’s great!
Katie
Woah, love it! I think this is solid material and solid advice. I think it would be super weird if my husband was taking other women out to lunch and referring to them as his “girlfriends” even it if was in a joking manner. And I would not feel comfortable going out to eat or get coffee with a married man. If it is a work-related thing I could appreciate that because it is in a public place instead of in an office. But I would not go out with a married man just to “chat” and “catch up.” Weirdness.
I’m with you, ashleigh: weirdness. Weirdness, indeed.
Can you explain “No Questions” a little more?
Great post! We’ve been going through some of the exact same information at my church. Why would you want to live in a gray area when you can have complete freedom and happiness just by maintaining boundaries? Be wise and make sure that you are placing your spouse above all others.
Sure,
I’d love to explain a little more. This one really applies to me because I had a sexual past when I met my husband. I used relationships with men to find my self-worth and value.
o once my husband and I were engaged and we decided that there would be opposite sex friendships in our marriage, I had a huge sigh of relief. It was as if Jonathan was saying to me, “You’re the only one I want and I’m the only one you need. Forever.” Suddenly, the weight or worry about hanging out with other men was completely removed for me.
I would never be tempted to look for love in the wrong place, or to flirt to gain attention, or to evaluate my self-worth on whether or not a guy thought I was hot. No, my value would come from Christ and my husband.
These boundaries in my marriage allow me to feel protected from my past, secure in my present, and at peace with my future in marriage.
Won’t really argue these points, but I honestly find that “reproach” is becoming an excuse for Christians to judge each other and jump to wild conclusions without knowing all of the facts. Moreover, it places a lot of emphasis on the outward – what other people think- as opposed to issues of the heart – what God (the only opinion that matters) thinks. This is my opinion and conviction at this time – and I’ve been known to change – and it’s worth about two cents – if that.
P.S. Great article and great points. I can respect a well formed opinion any time.
Joey, I wouldn’t disagree with you at all about how Christians can misuse “reproach” for the purpose of judging another. (On a side note, read 1 Corinthians 5:12-13 for another take on judgment within the Church–not outside of it.)
But all that said, I do believe that the outside matters. We are called to be a holy people. While yes, people may judge inappropriately, I believe we are called to a certain standard of righteousness and wisdom to uphold the testimony of God. This is not to say that the external matters more than the internal–or at all in the eternal scheme of things–but that why is it worth risking testimony or putting even other believers in the position of having to question your motives? I’m not saying that they should judge in such circumstances, but I think wisdom would say that we shouldn’t give them any reason to judge, either.
Thoughts?
I am a single guy. My two best friends are married to each other. I have individual relationships with both of them. I spend time with them together. I spend time alone with both of them. Him and I have similar interests that we partake in. Her and I have have similar interests that we partake in. I have his blessing to maintain this level of friendship with her.
I keep reading that these relationships should be avoided because of temptation. Do you not drive a car, because you may be tempted to speed? Do you not walk into Walmart to buy deodorant, because you may be tempted to steal it? Do you not speak, because you may be tempted to lie?
I’m all for setting boundaries in any type of relationship. I would never do anything with a woman without the approval of her husband.
Brian, I believe Nicole addressed your point earlier by saying that each marriage should set their own boundaries. Even in the post we said that others may disagree with us.
Two points to your second paragraph, though:
1) I believe we gave far more reason than temptation alone to avoid opposite sex relationships in marriage. While we may think that alone is enough reason, we believe the other four reasons are just enough reason to avoid them, as well. Would you agree?
2) To be fair, your analogy about driving is not apples-to-apples, nor is your analogy about Walmart. These things you have mentioned are unavoidable in life. You cannot say “I will never drive again because I may be tempted to speed.” Nor can you say, “I will not shop so therefore I will not steal.” Were those constant issues for you, perhaps you could go so far as to take the bus or shop with someone else. Fortunately, friendships are one of those things that you can avoid without having to change your lifestyle (i.e. driving, shopping) altogether. What we’re talking about is wisdom, not rules.
So, with those points made, what would you say: are such boundaries wise? We’re talking about a God-honored covenant, and we think it’s worth protecting. If you are an alcoholic, would you not avoid bars? If you struggle with porn, would you not setup an internet filter or accountability system? Thoughts?
I do agree with Joey’s comment up above about the use of being “above reproach,” among Christians. Should I avoid certain relationships that are beneficial, because it may give people a reason to judge?
I’m all for fleeing temptation. There are certain single women I refuse to be alone with, because I know there would be much temptation in that situation. Just because a person has certain genitalia, does that mean I will be tempted? No.
Boundaries are wise. If you have an addiction or fear you may get one, you’d avoid the bars, use an internet filter or avoid the internet all together. Not everybody has the same struggles though. Person A may not drink a single sip because he had an alcoholic in the family, or knew somebody killed by a drunk driver. There’s nothing wrong with that decision. Person B may have not had the same experiences, so he chooses to drink in moderation. There’s nothing wrong with that decision either.
I respect the decision you and Nicole have made, but it’s not for everybody.
Brian,
I understand your argument completely, but here’s what I would say (and maybe my husband will respond soon too):
Marriage is a representation of Christ’s love for the church. Marriage is to model our Lord’s self-sacrificing love. There is nothing Satan enjoys more than bringing to believers into a place of temptation, and if not avoided, then unfaithfulness. Satan wants our marriages to fail. He wants to convince us that hanging out with the opposite sex by yourself in marriage is “no big deal.”
Here’s an anecdote for you…I heard of a pastor who served on a church committee with a group of men and women. After a meeting one day, one of the women from the committee and the pastor were just chatting. The woman smiled at him and said, “If only we had met before meeting our spouses.”
That pastor said he had never had a thought about that woman once…that is until she made that remake, She set his mind in a different direction. They ended up having an affair and he lost his family and his church.
It doesn’t take much for marriages to fail so why even risk it? Your priority becomes either a casual friendship with a woman or the woman with whom you entered into a covenant before God.
I find this anecdote to be unhelpful and unclear. Are you suggesting that a pastor should not chat with women in the congregation? The problem was not the chatting in general. The problem was that the woman made an inappropriate remark, the pastor did not correct her or tell someone else about the situation, they then sought each other out knowing from the beginning that at least one of them did not have good intentions. A whole string of decisions and actions had to follow from that conversation. I suspect there was a lot more going on in this pastor’s life that resulted in his affair. He may not have thought about that woman before, but was he already being open and honest with his wife? Did he have mechanisms in place to hold him accountable at work? Did he meet with women behind closed doors? Etc. etc.
We encounter situations every day where we have to choose how to respond, but it’s a choice, that’s where self-control comes in. It’s important to have accountability and open communication with a spouse or friend (for single people like me). For example, perhaps we run into a friend of the opposite sex while out shopping and stop to chat, or at a church event, or at a friend’s party. These situations can be completely innocent and mutually encouraging. If at any time a friend or acquaintance tried to take a situation in the wrong direction, we always have the choice to walk away. I dislike direct causation arguments like this anecdote because I think they encourage people to depend excessively on rules, instead of viewing each person as an individual. Especially in the context of the church, we should view each other as brothers and sisters. Good boundaries and accountability are important, but I find that an excessive reliance on strict rules based on personal opinions can lead to legalism and attitudes that encourage unnecessary distrust, fear, and shame among believers. I think that you can prioritize your marriage and still leave room for casual friendships (that have clear boundaries that both spouses are comfortable with). I don’t think it’s necessary to make an either/or argument.
Lauren,
You seem a little fired up. I apologize if it was unclear. I agree with much of what you wrote.
However, my point in bringing this story up was simply to illustrate how easy it can be for anyone to fall into a tempting situation. How a casual conversation or encounter can lead to something unforeseen or unplanned.
If a casual conversation between a pastor and a member of his congregation can lead to adultery, how much more could, and can, a close friendship between two people of the opposite sex?
Again, my husband and I have stated in the comments here that each marriage is different. What works for one might not for another. Yet, I would hesitate to call our list “rules.” These are not rules. These are boundaries and the distinction is an important one.
I don’t tend to think of God’s commandments or His scripture as a set of rules, but rather boundaries in my life–boundaries that keep me safe, protected, secure, healthy, at peace, and in His will. Same goes with the boundaries we have set in our own marriage.
I find those close friendships to be safer than my casual friendships. If for some reason, I screwed up with my female friend mentioned above, I’d lose her husband as a friend, I’d either damage or destroy their marriage, lose my friendship with her, and I’d live a life of guilt. There’s no way I’d even think about messing around with her, because I value our friendships too much. It’s not going to happen.
We talk about living a life in the Spirit, but often forget one of the fruits of the Spirit is self-control.
Ha perhaps I did sound fired up. The hazards of trying to communicate without tone of voice. My apologies if directness veered into rudeness. I agree with much of what you say.
I appreciate your opinion and what you have to say, especially regarding the distinction between rules and boundaries. To give you some insight into my perspective, I have encountered many situations within the church where this distinction was not recognized, i.e. boundaries was a code word for rules in the context of relationships. These rules/boundaries became a way for people I knew to avoid exercising self control or discernment, often to the detriment of their relationships with people in the church (both single sex friendships and opposite sex friendships). It was also a way for them to avoid growing as individuals by confronting unhealthy attitudes they held about friendships and male/female dynamics. For example, one friend asked her fiance to abide by what I would call excessively restrictive boundaries due to her own insecurities about her appearance and unhealthy jealousy (I say unhealthy because it was coming from her externally-directed jealousy of what other women had, not a jealous guarding of her relationship to her fiance.). The result was controlling behavior in the name of godly boundaries. I have seen this pattern with other people as well.
I am not AT ALL saying this applies to you or other people who have commented on this blog. I simply bring this up to point out that at times people can veer into legalism in this area, instead of recognizing the importance of self-control and trust.
But again, I do appreciate where you are coming from and your willingness to have this discussion.
Your post brought up an interesting thought in my mind. Most people who feel it’s ok to hang out with those of the opposite sex feel that way because their relationship is in a pretty good, strong place. But what happens when your marriage goes through the rocky places? It will be lest tempting call up guy-friend-joe-schmoe to chat about your husbands short comings (“just to get a guy’s perspective”) if you don’t HAVE any guy-friend-joe-schmoe’s hanging around. It’s very important to me that my husband be the only guy I feel comfortable having such intimate convos with because it ensures I go to him with my issues, rather than go the easier route of talking to an outsider.
Hope that came out clear.
Great post!
Oh, here a question though: how does this apply to virtual relationships? Same rule as a work relationship: aka keep it business?
Elizabeth,
I think that is a great question!
My husband and I have a pretty simple rule of thumb. If we are emailing a person of the opposite sex for whatever reason, we blind copy each other on the email. Granted, my husband doesn’t do that with his work emails necessarily and this rule does require us to trust each other to do so.
Another thing we do is hand-ff, so to speak. I had a male blog reader who engaged me in lots of dialogue via email and Twitter. I basically handed him off to my husband, who answered a lot of his questions. Subsequently, they became friends.
Our virtual worlds make it easy for temptation to slip in. I always think too, if Jonathan were standing over my shoulder would I write this?
I am dating a wonderful woman and agree with this blog (at least believe I would if/when I’m married).
I have many problems with having friends of the opposite sex without your girlfriend or wife (even in a dating relationship).
One problem is the fact that I met my girlfriend that way. We were pretty good friends for 3 years before we started dating. The funny thing is that we liked each other for quite a long time too, so the act of pursuit looked very differently throughout our friendship. Just this summer it blossomed into a dating relationship. It was extremely exciting and nerve-racking going through all the different stages of that pursuit.
Also, that pursuit was never planned. We just hung out here and there and started to get to know each other and like each other through that, gradually. It starts very harmlessly and can snowball into something serious unexpectedly (good in my case but unfortunate in cases of broken marriages).
That is the danger, the UNEXPECTEDNESS. If being social meant something to me with my girlfriend before we were dating, it is illogical to think that socializing means nothing with girls since I’m dating someone now or at least could never mean something.
I am not saying I think I would end up choosing someone else over my girlfriend, but people cheat a lot so it does happen. That UNEXPECTEDNESS is real.
Lastly, if we are pursuing (or just hanging out with) other women outside of a dating relationship (and definitely marriage), we will have less energy to put into pursuing our girlfriend or wife.
I hope that the pursuit of my girlfriend will only grow and become more exciting (married people, please correct me if I’m wrong). Whether it is a date, a gift, or just doing something spontaneous I hope that doesn’t stop when I say “I do”. It takes a lot out of you to be there for someone and care for them and pursue them.
P.S. this is just a thought but isn’t this analogous to our relationship with Christ? We shouldn’t be in pursuit of other Gods or Idols.
This is why I call you two the Cottrell Power Couple haha! Together you two are beasts(good beasts)!
I agree with pretty much, everything you guys have pointed out. I know my wife would print this, make posters and plaster them everywhere cause she literally preaches on this every week.
I had a female best friend (friend-zoned me, so that was insanely dangerous) before we got together and she had a male best friend/dance partner. If you don’t know anything about dance partners, they HAVE to be EXTREMELY close, because they need to flow with each other. Needless to say, we both made up our decision to keep away.
The second we did that, we instantly became even closer than we were before (pretty amazing since we were inseparable from day-one).
This may be a little off topic, but do you find that similar rules sometimes have to be applied to family? Well, not the “being alone” part, but what about boundaries and how much time you invest in them? Me and my wife have found that families tend to meddle without boundaries and cause a lot of problems in marriages. What do you two think about that? Sorry if that’s too far off topic, maybe you’ll do a blog about it Nicole.
http://absolutetotalfreedom.blogspot.com/
Your best friend is also your life mate as they understand you in and out
I’m joining this conversation from the opposite side of things, but I still agree with both of you. As a single mom (divorced) I have always felt that I need to be very careful about friendships with married men.
I need to be careful because I would never want to put strain on anyone’s marriage (not that I’m so hot or anything, but I think you know what I mean), and also because I want to protect my own reputation. It isn’t easy being a single mom in the church world and I do my best to keep my reputation clean.
Some of my unwritten rules are: Obviously never hang out alone with married men. If I’m out with a group of adults and a man talks to me for a couple minutes, I make a point to engage his wife in conversation at some point, even if I don’t know her well. (I’m not the most outgoing person, so this was a hard thing for me to learn to do, but now I’m pretty good at it.) I know when I was married, I hated it when my husband would talk one on one (although in a group) with a woman for several minutes and then the woman would never acknowledge me. It just felt weird to me. I also never enter into any discussions about “so and so’s husband being very good looking” even if he is. I like to say that when they get married men become instantly ugly to me. It may sound silly, and I guess it is, but it is a way for me to not only keep a good reputation, but also to protect myself from thinking, “I wish I could find a man like him…”
I’m not the type of person that runs away when a man stops to talk to me at church or something. I just make sure to keep it casual unless I feel there is a need to run away. There is one man that I completely avoid because he is married but his wife usually works on Sundays. He started trying to text me (and I never gave him my number) and talked about being “special friends” because he doesn’t have any friends. I don’t even stay in the same room with him now, even if there are other people around. And I never answered his texts.
I do have two really good friends that are married and I hang out with them as a couple, even though I’m not part of a couple. The thing is, I never hang out with the man alone and I do hang out with his wife alone. I feel blessed that they allow me to be a part of their lives even though I’m single because it lets my daughter see how other families live. (When I am at their house, our kids are also there and they play together.) Most married couples don’t invite my daughter and I over for dinner or games or whatever, whether it be because it seems weird to them, or maybe because they think it would be weird to me. I don’t know. I can understand that and that is why I value their friendship so much and why I am very careful to not overstep my bounds.
Wow, I’ve never felt so refreshed.
All five of those reasons TOTALLY make sense to me and I’ve been trying to explain to friends and boyfriend why I don’t think one-on-one with the opposite gender is appropriate, but no one seems to understand me because they’re “JUST friends.”
Reading this article was like reaching for an itch on your back and finally being able to scratch it.
Thank you, both!
Definitely sharing this.
Thank you Nicole and Jonathan for your article. I appreciate how you can have black and white boundaries that don’t stem from legalism, but from a Biblical perspective and hearts that want to serve the Lord and each other.
My unhappy past was a strange mixture of abuse and fundamentalism, and I have struggled to find my way, as a Bible-believing Christian, from running away from legalism, without falling into the other extreme of taking advantage of my Christian “freedoms”. For instance, I had male roommates one year during college, and I felt that since some of us were Christians, and I wasn’t tempted to think of those guys as more than friends, that there was nothing wrong about it. The point you brought up concerning “beyond reproach” has helped clear up this fuzzy feeling in my head that it wasn’t quite right.
Sometimes I get tired of trying to push my boundaries of what I “can” or “can’t” do as a Christian. I do think there is a place for the translation of Biblical principles into guidelines for godly living in our contemporary society. But I find no peace in playing this selfish game of trying to draw those lines as far out as possible, where I go deeper and deeper into friendships with guys, only to find myself defensively and uncomfortably over that grey line, and having to pull back in a friendship – not only with consequences for myself, but also hurting them. And now I realize, how far my heart goes astray from seeking the Lord.
So not only do I appreciate the practicality of your advice, but the main thing that hit home from your article was just how much you love Jesus and how much you love each other. As a single twentysomething, I am reflecting on how God desires marriage to be about serving your spouse, and I realize how much that should affect my boundaries with guys both now and when/if I get married someday. I desire to have a heart that is less selfish in pursuing whatever I want in my relationships with guys, and more centered on how I can serve Jesus and others. Thanks!
I love this! I would have had completely opposite opinions till about 6 months ago when I kinda started a relationship with a guy I really like. It was interesting how my other relationships with the opposite sex began to change the more I liked this guy. I still have friendships with men, but the nature of those relationships is changing more and more and my relationships with women are growing and getting stronger (and I totally needed women in my life). Now having read all these wonderful blog posts about the subject I am sure of what I want in a future marriage (to whoever I end up with) and I pray for a man who agrees with this as well. I want a rock solid marriage like you guys!
Love reading Modern Reject!!!!
Thanks for sharing! It has been really interesting to read everyone’s comments and think through various situations.
My husband and I were fortunate enough to have 4 other couples who are our close friends get married the same year we did. It is a huge blessing, but something we all try to be attentive to the is potentially sticky situations when one has a close circle of friends- both men and women.
I think a friend said it best when talking about boundaries- it isn’t that we are constantly one step away from an affair at all times and that is where the lines start… more like 5, 10, 20 steps away.
It is the small decisions that can be made in advance that keep us away from circumstances none of us want. Safe opposite gender boundaries shouldn’t start with the topic of conversation when 2 of you meet for lunch. An affair doesn’t just happen with 1 misstep- it is the texting, getting in the car, driving to the cafe, etc. So why don’t I text our male friends even if it is setting up a time for all of us to get together? It is simply a road we just don’t need to venture onto.
I’m married and i tottally agree with that five points! Loved the post, now following your blog. Tanx!
is very good
I’m grateful to see that I’m not the only one to feel this way . . . unfortunately, my husband does not. It makes me feel uncomfortable when he hangs our with his posse of single friends, not because they are single, but because one of them is a female. He’s been friends with her for a very long time and they have never shared romantic feelings, but it still makes me uncomfortable. He doesn’t see any harm in it, and instead feels that I’m restricting him. Any advice on helping him see my side? Striking a compromise?
Well said…